Commentary for black move 29:

MIKE VALVO: -- in the old days with four pawns against five pawns and once --

YASSER SEIRAWAN: We do have a move by Garry Kasparov. He's moved his Kc8-c7 and this looks like a fine move. The idea is that he has released the b8 square for a rook, which would threaten -- it would be check, and since white's king is exposed, white also has to be quite concerned about this move Qc4. So, again, if I was white I'd be tempted to take those queens off the board. I'm getting very worried about what Deep Blue has done with the moves b4-b5-Bxc6. It seems like he's opened up the position of his king against himself, and Garry is getting up, pacing the floor.

MIKE VALVO: You see a game like this you wonder why humans are afraid of computers, because they really had a big advantage, and all of the sudden the computers got one more but clearly -- a pawn more but clearly the position is riddled with weaknesses and black just need to as Bill says win by default, keep putting on the pressure and eventually everything will collapse. It's going to be a big victory for Garry it seems clear to me now.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Wow! I don't think it's that clear to me.

MIKE VALVO: As you were discussing before, but I have to disagree with you. I think that black is much better now.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Oh, I think that black has pluses, but I'm not going to give up my belief that that's -- if Garry is going to win by the way he's going to win in an ending. I could play Qxf4. I'm not going to go down it a checkmating attack. I may lose all my pawns and get killed later, but it's not going to be a stimulating attack. So again, if I were white, I would trade those queens.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: But this is a position in which computer doesn't really like --

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: /TH-LS a position in which computer doesn't really like and doesn't understand.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: That computers like? Fritz like's Deep Blue's position.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Yeah, because it doesn't know how to play endgame! (Audience laughter.)

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Well, I really hope for all of our sakes that Garry doesn't lose the endgame, okay? But again, if I were Deep Blue I would definitely be jumping -- you know, this is getting dangerous. White's king is going to get smoked out of the queen-side, and I would play Qxf4. There's a strong likelihood that Garry would play Rxf4. And let's just take a look at that. Should we put that on the board? Qxf4 Rxf4. Again, white's got a problem with what to do with his knights. And let's just take a look at the move Nc3-e2. You saw something similar to this a moment ago. Okay, go ahead and give that a shot.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: But now --

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Now what can I do?

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Actually not.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: No, I'll do something like that. I like what you're suggesting, Angela. Play Nf3-d4.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: I did, but now let's see what is going to happen.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Okay, now, if we're under the impression that Deep Blue is losing and I want to bail out, I want to trade off as many pieces as I can, and play Rxd4. I'm just trying to save the computer. Nxd4.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Then I try to save the king.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Okay, and now h5. I'm just trying to reduce the position as much as I can, and with the small amount of material that's left after all of these trades, I think that Deep Blue will be able to keep the ending.

MIKE VALVO: Ne4.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: How about a move like f2-f4, attacking your rook. I'm just saying I don't want to go down to a mating attack, and that's why I would trade queens if I were Deep Blue --

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Okay, maybe I do not have to capture on d4. So let's go back.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Go back just a few moves.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Because I don't want to trade all my pieces.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: That's exactly what I did, by the way, I traded all of Kasparov's pieces off the board.

MIKE VALVO: Garry is pacing again. Look how much time he has left now. It can't be too much.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: So did everybody understand what I was trying to do there. Defending Deep Blue's position.

MIKE VALVO: Garry has 18 minutes, 45 seconds.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: For 12 moves.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: By just trading off all of the attackers. After Ne4, I'll play Rg3-f3. Now you can give me check on e8. You can take my knight on d4.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Wait a minute. First I capture your knight.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Okay, now I'll play the zwischenzug. How many of us know what the word zwischenzug means by the way? It's a German word which means "in between captures." So instead of recapturing the knight on d4 immediately I'm going to give you a which can. Rf3-f7+.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Fair enough.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: How we doing? Now --

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: I'm not worried.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Rd1xd4. Trade off the pieces.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Should I play Nc3?

YASSER SEIRAWAN: I don't know, should you play Nc3?

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Just to try.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Just to try.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: What do you think?

YASSER SEIRAWAN: No. What you can do is try Nc3 and maybe Rxe5 .

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Because you play Kb2, and if I capture I play Rxe5.

MIKE VALVO: It seems clear Garry is getting very agitated.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Once again, what we've been looking at is endings, and let's imagine for a moment -- I think it's a horrifying thought, but let's imagine that Deep Blue does not trade queens, okay? Shall we go back just to the game position. This is the game position, what we have on the board. And the first thing is that we cannot play Rxd5.

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Yeah, I was looking at that. C X D5, so you have an opportunity to play Nxd5 and have a fork, attacking the king and the queen.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Right. So it would be lovely to capture the pawn --

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: The problem is with the move Rxd5, black has queenxqueen.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Right. I'm going to lose a rook in the end. Can't do it. No, no. So we're trying to imagine what Deep Blue is analyzing other than taking off these queens. What would you play if you were white, Angela? Sometimes in chess you're constantly facing difficult questions, and so --

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: Yeah, but now you --

YASSER SEIRAWAN: I shifted your thinking. Well, what are you afraid of? If you recall playing black's position -- what would you fear? Would you fear the exchange of queens?

ANGELINA BELASKAYA: I would like the end, so probably I would like to exchange the queens, like you did, and finally maybe in worst position, get a draw. But if I play for a win, never.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Never. Mike, you're a computer expert. Would you -- could you imagine of another move besides the exchange of queens for Deep Blue? I mean is Deep Blue thinking about -- does it see checkmate for itself, or what's going on?

MIKE VALVO: Well, I'm sure that they're thinking about Qxf4 here, because computers know that when you're ahead material, to exchange off the material. So I'm sure that they're thinking about Qxd4 -- Qxf4 and there's probably a lot of extensions in this position, that's why they're taking so much time, plus they have the time to take. I noticed that some of the comments had been made -- when I was out of the room -- is "Gee, I would expect a computer to reply right away, there's only one move in the position." But from the computer's point of view it doesn't see it as just one move, it's analyzing all the possibilities for several moves deep no matter if it's an obvious move to a human or not. It's still going to take that three minutes, regardless. The only time it's going to move faster is if it guessed what Garry's move was in the meantime.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: We'll take a couple more questions from our audience while we have Angela on stage. Could we have some questions perhaps directed in her direction? We have a gentleman, could we get a microphone over to this gentleman? So you really like the computer's position? (Elbowing.)

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Are they going to change the 50-move rule on account of the finding by computers?

MIKE VALVO: They already did, they already changed it back to the 50 move rule.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Explain yourself, Mike.

MIKE VALVO: There's a rule in chess that says if there are no captures, no pawn moves in 50 moves, that the game is declared a draw, and there were certain endgames that were discovered by analysis by Ken Thompson that went beyond 50 moves in order to win, some went to a hundred. So they changed the rules for certain endgames to 75 or a hundred moves to win certain endgames. And it got to be so confusing nobody knew what was going on, so they said maybe the reality is that it does take so many moves to win but we're going to make the 50-move rule back the way it used to be. And you still have to make 50 rules; -- 50 moves. If if you can't do it, too bad.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Another question?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's regarding the computer. I'd like to know, what are the chances that the better computer is going to be built. Because it's obviously a huge effort has been done in creating this monster, to beat and probably design to beat Kasparov in particular. Now, if let's say the computer win the match, isn't it like going to the moon, and once you've been there, you don't have to go back, you've been there. Or is it easy to build them, and are there going to be Deep Blues in every town and have a world of Deep Blue's competing each other? Because I have no idea, it's a huge effort, but materially what does it take to do a better --

MIKE VALVO: Well, it certainly takes a huge effort and there's many years of research that are involved here. This particular team that put it together goes way back to Carnegie-Mellon, where they were working on a machine called Deep Thought, and then there was Deep Thought II, and then Deep Blue, and then Deeper Blue. When we get a world champion, you don't just stop right there. There's always somebody that comes along and challenges that world champion and there's always going to be somebody to challenge the computer that's the best, so if Deeper Blue becomes the strongest machine in the world there will be someone else that comes along with a faster machine, and maybe that faster machine will be another variant of IBM, will be a real Deep Deep Blue, next time. Maybe even Deep Vileet. I don't know.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: One more question from the audience. A lady, yes, by all means, let's have a question.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I really just wondered how old all of you were when you learned how to play chess. Also, do any of you play musical instruments? And how old were you when you realized you were talented in chess?

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Whoa! Okay.

MIKE VALVO: Ladies first.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Age before beauty?

MIKE VALVO: Ladies first.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Ladies first. How old were you when you started chess, and when did you realize you had a talent and all of those good things? Speak about yourself?

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