Commentary for white move 37:

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Ra8. We'll continue this line. Because after Ra8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qb 6 black has a defensive resource Qd8 just simply defending the bishop and keeping the position closed. Garry would likely hold or save this position.

PATRICK WOLFF: However, if black were to play Rxa2 --

MAURICE ASHLEY: Sorry. Just to get a comment on what you just said. After Qb8 in this line, what if the computer -- and maybe this is the kind of endgame that Garry is pursuing -- what if Deep Blue were to play the move Qxb8 in this position, and after bishop takes, play the move d6, in order to get the white bishop to go after the b-pawn and the c-pawn, I mean in like the variation Bxd6 now Bc6. Now it looks as if black is about to lose a couple of pawns, but what is your feeling on this position?

PATRICK WOLFF: That is actually a draw, I think.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Yes.

PATRICK WOLFF: We're going to go through some moves quickly and then we'll explain what's happening. Be5 Bxc4+ Kf8. Now, it doesn't really matter. Bxc3. The point here is we've reached an endgame of pop colored bishops, and when you have an oppositeed colored bishop endgames -- as a matter of fact I explained this in depth in my book, the complete idiot's guide to chess, feel free to take a look for yourself, but what happens with opposite colored bishops is you manage to blockade the pawns. White isn't going to be able to push this pawn because black will simply control it from the dark squares. This pawn isn't going anywhere. It would be a draw.

MAURICE ASHLEY: Okay. So this is the kind of position that Kasparov would love to have happen, that would be deep into the analysis and Deep Blue might see it's winning a pawn but won't be able to win the game because of the specifics on the chessboard.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: That would be an opportunity for Garry to get out of his troubles.

PATRICK WOLFF: Coming back to the immediate game, if Garry does take the rook on a2, I think

YASSER and

MAURICE will probably agree with me that capturing with the /TKPA*EPB queen makes a bit more sense. The point here is now white is going to keep this a-file because of of this rook-and-queen battery. Black is still very passive. His queen, his rook, his bishop, none of them are really doing anything. The computer's queen will be able to come down to a6 to bother this bishop, to bother this pawn, to bother this rook. This has to be an advantage, although I agree with you,

YASSER, that Qb6 looked like a better move.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Indeed we'll have to ask Deep Blue after the game why he didn't play this. Going back just a moment to really -- it would be a tragedy if for Deep Blue he doesn't win this game and misses Qb6. Did we find a defensive -- did he find a defensive resource -- if we just take the move Be4 back for just a moment --

MAURICE ASHLEY: It's hard to believe that --

YASSER SEIRAWAN: -- and try to move Qb6.

MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, first of all we know that Deep Blue didn't "miss" Qb6. Because Deep Blue looks at every single possible move in the position and Qb6 obviously has concrete threats associated with it, so it didn't miss the move. It's possible that it just came up with a defense in its mind that was sufficient and we're going to have to search for it now to see what that might be. The other thing, too, though that was a good point made, is this idea that if a computer sees something it assumes that the human sees it.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Indeed.

MAURICE ASHLEY: And although we might be terrified by Qb6, if it calculates ten moves from now and says, "Oh, no, you have this resource on move ten that equalizes the position," then it'll avoid that variation because it sees it and it assumes that you're intelligent enough to see it, too. And it will play some other move. In the meantime we might have resigned after Qb6, might have said oh, I'm dead, it's over, and it would have been better to play that move. So it's one of the weaknesses, one of the flaws of a computer that it assumes it's playing against somebody that's equally intelligent and therefore avoids these kinds of variations.

PATRICK WOLFF: Well, another important point I think is to understand how the computer thinks. The computer won't fail to see ways to win material within some short number of moves, but it will often misevaluate certain kinds of positions.

YASSER and I are very happy for white's position that this queen has managed to penetrate. Perhaps Deep Blue has a different evaluation. Maybe it's better, maybe it's worse, that this queen might be less-well-placed, so long as it doesn't actually find a way to win a pawn, it's going to be difficult for it sometimes to distinguish, as it's difficult for all of us to distinguish, what position we should really go for as opposed to another.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Well, again, Patrick, I have a lot of problems with this, because the point is, if we just freeze for a moment this position in our mind, think about how nice white's queen is. It's penetrated black's camp. White has the a-file under control, there are immediate threats, and we compare to the game position that after Rxa2, you are suggesting -- and I agree with you -- that the countercapture Qxa2 -- you're going to get exactly the same position as Qb6, only the queen is already penetrated. The queen is landing on the a2 square. So it doesn't make any sense to me how Deep Blue has made the decision it's made, with Be4. After Bc7 then I just think -- no, I'll go for the endgame, Qe6+.

PATRICK WOLFF: You want this?

YASSER SEIRAWAN: Oh, yeah, I'll be very happy. D takes. And I'm trying to get a variation that

MAURICE was intrigued by, which was to bring white's bishop and go after those queen-side pawns w Be4 and Bc6 and go for the b-pawn. That e6 pawn is just a bone in the throat.

PATRICK WOLFF: It's a monster.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: That is great. No, in this ending I would try. We have the time. Garry Kasparov has 11 minutes and 30-odd seconds for his last three moves, and /TK-P --

PATRICK WOLFF: Which is plenty of time.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: And Deep Blue, too, has plenty of time.

MAURICE ASHLEY: So we're a bit befuddled that Be4 was played instead of Qb6, which looks quite nice. Rxa2 as we anticipated has been played, and we also anticipate Qxa2 to be the response by Deep Blue. But an interesting moment indeed. Qb6, very aggressive move, the move we would have anticipated from Deep Blue, and maybe --

PATRICK WOLFF: Either with or without --

MAURICE ASHLEY: Both very natural. It seems Deep Blue seems to have seen something we didn't or misevaluated the position. We will not be sure unless we are told by the Deep Blue team, who we hope will come on stage after the team. Yesterday, Kasparov after his win, was quite eager to jump on stage and tell us all about it.

YASSER SEIRAWAN: He was gracious, yes.

MAURICE ASHLEY: And the Deep Blue team after the loss was very gracious in coming on stage to provide us commentary.

PATRICK WOLFF:

MAURICE, I think we have some questions from the audience, perhaps we'll take them, over here? I'd like to introduce, by the way, this is Mike Cavalo. He is the executive director of the United States Chess Federation, the national chess federation for chess. And, if you are interested, fascinated by this great game of chess and you want to learn more, you should call the U.S. chess federation at 1-800-388-KING. For more information, anything about chess, the U.S. chess federation can help you. Mike, what's your question?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, Marinella have been discussing this. She is from the U.S. chess federation and/or scholastic coordinator. It's if white decides to sacrifice the bishop. A fantasy variation. This is in the line if white had played Qb6 and not rejected it. Okay, exchanging rooks on a2. And opposing with the rook, so that if white goes into it and exchanges, take back with the queen. In other words, Ra8 now for black.

PATRICK WOLFF: Okay.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exchange the rooks. And the queen takes. And then if white plays queen takes bishop, which is the likely, queen down to the first rank, check. The question is where the king moves. Yeah, that's the most likely. Queen takes pawn. Now one possibility would be that white might play something like Qe6+ and push the pawn, forgetting about the bishop. I don't know what you'd play but the thing that black would play for is not taking the bishop but something like queen d2 to play for the perpetual.

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